World of Stunting
Off-Topic => Humor => Topic started by: P1nts3L on May 16, 2011, 08:31:15 am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32NaIlp4djw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32NaIlp4djw&feature=related)
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What a nutjob this ass is...
Blah blah, the end! ::)
Cheers,
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What a nutjob this ass is...
Blah blah, the end! ::)
Cheers,
No, have some respect man! :lol:
He actually has the balls to say that. And on top of that, in court!
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What a nutjob this ass is...
Blah blah, the end! ::)
Cheers,
No, have some respect man! :D
He actually has the balls to say that. And on top of that, in court!
I have no respect for someone that had his "family" kill a woman that was 9 months pregnant by stabbing her in the stomach.
Nope, this dude is a total whack-job. They should have put his sorry ass under the earth decades ago!
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The guy has a serious mental disorder.
He actually BELIEVE the stuff he says.
Creepy.
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Ron, Charles Manson never asked anyone to be killed. "Tex" Watson, acting completely on his own, killed every person in the house. Nobody else committed murders, and Manson himself was unaware of it until the police told him that he was being accused. This has been proven in and outside of court, Watson has admitted to it as well.
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Ron, Charles Manson never asked anyone to be killed. "Tex" Watson, acting completely on his own, killed every person in the house. Nobody else committed murders, and Manson himself was unaware of it until the police told him that he was being accused. This has been proven in and outside of court, Watson has admitted to it as well.
If you are going to say that this has been proven, I ask that you site your sources. The information I have contradicts what you're saying. Even the information at the time, written in part by Vincent Bugliosi, the lead prosecutor in the case, gives an accurate account of Charlies participation. It's rare that a general is at the forefront of the battle during the fighting...he's the one that gives the orders and has his "people" do the job.
Research it a bit more to find out exactly what occurred. More than one person did the killing, too. There's even a movie (although it's really dated and looks just like it was made in the 1970's, 'cause it was) called "Helter Skelter", giving information that was available at the time of the trial.
I was just a young boy when all this went down, but i do remember something of what it was like around my community and what the news was saying. Having been curious throughout my life about this massacre has educated me more about what happened on those fateful nights of the Tate/Bianca murders. And the conclusion is that Charlie was behind the whole thing, running the show and giving orders to his "people" for really fucked up reasons. Look up what his idea of Helter Skelter represented and you'll know what i mean!
Anyway, may the bastard rot in hell, the sooner the better!
Cheers,
Ron_Dogg
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I've done my research. Vincent Bugliosi wrote Helter Skelter [the BOOK] because he intended to make a movie out of it [by the same name], fabricated many events, and falsified a lot of confessions. I don't suspect the news to have known what happened because their information was based entirely on word of mouth. If you're going to cite something, make sure it's not a movie labeled "Fiction". There are several books recounting the events exactly, I suggest you read them.
Tex Watson was the only person to kill anyone that night, although another woman did stab someone in the house, but that was after she was dead, and because Tex told her to.
Charles Manson has never been convicted of murder, only conspiracy. In United States law, he had to be convicted of Conspiracy to Murder, because of the murder charges being laid on the other people in the Family.
If you want to do proper research, read these books:
Squeaky: The Life And Times of Lynette Alice Fromme
Manson, by Robert Hendrickson
My Life With Charles Manson, by Paul Watkins
There are several news articles stating that Vincent admitted to lying during the court proceedings as well as in the book he wrote about them. He has had lawsuits filed against him for libel because of the lies he printed. His account is not in any definition accurate.
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Ron, Charles Manson never asked anyone to be killed.
This is simply not true. He was the leader as all of your citations concede. He was the general and had his troops do the killing. I can't see how that is any different than doing it yourself? Even so, Manson was convicted of 7 counts of First Degree Murder, 1 count of Conspiracy to Commit Murder and subsequently sentenced to death in the gas chamber. Manson was also convicted of 2 more counts of First Degree Murder for the murders of Gary Hinman and Donald "Shorty" Shea, in which he received a sentence of life imprisonment. You seem to be stuck on this "Tex did all the killing" thing and this is not the point at all.
And I have read those books and some others like: Manson by John Gilmore and Ron Kenner; John Gilmores Manson: The Unholy Trail of Charlie & the Family and many other books, articles and press releases published during and after the trial. All of these have concluded that he was ultimately responsible for murders the "Family" were accused of doing.
As far as Bugliosi's submission in the book he co-wrote (not by himself, as you seem to believe, but with Curt Gentry and the T.V. movie teleplay was written by James Miller that was "based on" the book) just because he exaggerated (like the defence lawyers did as well) the truth, doesn't mean that the truth wasn't exposed to begin with. That's what lawyers and cops do. I don't know if he had his eye on Hollywood, but facts are facts and the proven fact remains that Charles Manson was the leader of a "family" that was bent on murder and chaos as described in the "Helter Skelter" proclamation from Charles Manson himself. I suspect you've read this already? His plan? He was one fucked up individual and would stop at nothing to have his plan put into action and could care less about who he got to do it.
There are several news articles stating that Vincent admitted to lying during the court proceedings as well as in the book he wrote about them. He has had lawsuits filed against him for libel because of the lies he printed. His account is not in any definition accurate.
And finally, as to the libel suites against Bugliosi, one was from the lawyer Paul Fitzgerald who represented Patricia Krenwinkel for "making Fitzgerald look incompetent" and the other, from another defending lawyer at the trial, Earle Partington was also claiming to have been made to look incompetent by the book "Helter Skelter"..." libel by implication in portraying him as incompetent. The Court ruled that the book and movie were opinion and did not address the public figure issues."
These are the only libel suites that were filed against Bugliosi. Both were dismissed. So, where is your proof that he lied? What evidence do you have to back up your claims? It would seem to me that the evidence I found showed that he did NOT lie and was proven true in court. Please show me your sources for these findings of guilt for libel?
Cheers,
Ron_Dogg
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In truth, Manson's guilt can't be proven. The only people who know exactly what he said and why are members of the Family, specifically people like Linda Kasabian, who has since been proven to be mentally unstable (along with Susan Atkins). Many of the key people called to the stand were given pardons for their previous crimes or promises of reduced sentences as an incentive to testify against him. Manson was given little chance to defend himself (the exception being he was offered to testify and declined), and the defense called nobody to the stand. The evidence from the crime scene was poorly cataloged and disorganized, and CHARLES WATSON* has admitted on several occasions that he had committed ALL of the murders in the Tate/LaBianca homes. The other people present that night were convicted because they admitted to being present.
If the court ruled that Vincent's book and movie were "opinion", how can you consider them proof of Manson's guilt?
He was never convicted of killing anyone. He was convicted of conspiracy to murder, and the law states if you are convicted of conspiracy you are to be convicted of the same crime as your co-conspirators. In this case, it was murder.
Also, it's different by definition alone. Manson didn't lay hands on the victims before their death, therefore he isn't a murderer. A guilty verdict makes him guilty in the eyes of the law, not the eyes of the people, especially when the people who gave the verdict were biased from the beginning.
I'm not going to argue about it any further.
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Dude, the last thing i considered this thread as was an argument. We both produced our own evidence of the case and tried to convince each other of our point of view. I consider that a healthy debate and you have shown me a side that i may not have considered otherwise. If we can walk away from this with the knowledge that we can agree to disagree, but have taken the other persons points as something to consider, then we are both getting something positive from this and it's not a waste of time.
I've enjoyed our debate and by no means think any less of you because of it; in fact it has been a very thought-provoking exercise and without name-calling and all the other bullshit that most people feel free to engage in when making a post on a forum. This is how things can be accomplished without any bad feelings occurring.
And, lastly, there are never any losers when a debate such as this happens. I don't feel i won, and I feel confident in the evidence that I've presented, as I'm sure you feel that you've done the same.
Again, thanks for being assertive in your position and presenting your material without resorting to what most people do on the internet; squabbling and flaming and missing the point. Yours was mature, articulate and with acceptance of others input.
Cheers,
Ron
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Typically if I have a legitimate point to prove I try to do so in the most responsible and intelligent way I can; I feel like when a conversation turns to insults and the like that it no longer has merit. At any rate, I'm glad there are no hard feelings.